Curse

Count to Potato · Nov 25, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Cons for PUGS

they can't afk farm lightbringer points

Pros for PUGS

they are much more fun and exciting

its quite simple, heroes disconenct when you do, PUGS disconnect when they want to

vergerefosh · Nov 25, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I did the whole game except the last 2 missions all with hero and hench, and the last 2 with a mix. Madness was done with 3 people, me, another dervish and SV necro, the other dervish's 3 heroes and 2 hench. Didn't get masters cos didn't try for it, but found it a lot easier. Then did last mission with another guy and his heroes and my heroes. A lot easier than when i tried it with heroes and hench as he knew what he was doing, and it allowed complementary sharing, and prevented having to wait around as there wrere barely any people there.
PUGs are still there, but more towards the end game as it can be a very long wait at times earlier on

Amity and Truth · Nov 25, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Heroes are a blessing and a curse to GuildWars.
They're good and with a bit of fine tuning and controlling them you can achieve everything as easy as if you had a full party of expert players.
The curse though is that PUGs are mostly dead. The chatter in towns completely died (except for that occasional tradespam), almost no one is looking for groups anymore.

On the other hand, pugs were fun, it was atleast multiplayer. Nightfall feels like a Single Player with the exception of a few rare occurences. When Prophecies was released, i met many new people some of which are still on my friendslist. When factions came out, i met many new people some of which are still on my friendslist.
When nightfall came out... i met no one new and many left my friendslist by stopping to play GuildWars. Meh, Single Player :P

Feathers · Nov 25, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

There are pros and cons either way and yes real people are always more fun, that's why I'm part of a guild but I simply won't miss the waiting and annoying things commonly associated with pugs. I did like the comparison of Heros to tools and oh yes how useful a tool they can be. I could make a list of everything I hate about PUGS but I have had both experiences good and bad with them. I would have to say though that most PUG experiences have been for the worse however and not the better

It's usually after a PUG fails and the patient players that remain put a group back togeather is when PUGS get fun because then you usually have a more patient group and people who are serious about the task at hand. First time successful PUGS for me, not many, it's been the ones put togeather from failure that have worked.

Factions, I think would have the most PUGS just due to the fact of missions all being on a time limit for the masters award.

*Darcy* · Nov 25, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

It's true, if you are joining a PuG then you are a PuGer, like it or not. And as with any random group, it will consist of good and bad. I'll do quests with heroes and henchman, but I still prefer real people for missions. Heroes are great for fill-in, but who wants to micro-manage the whole group. Now the mission is work instead of fun.

I prefer the memories from the PuGs for better (used my mesmer as the tank in Maguuma Jungle) or worse (casters/healers ran off to cap in Southern Shiverpeaks and left the two tanks fighting, didn't rez us until they had picked up all the drops). They all leave you with something talk about.

Guardian of the Light · Nov 25, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

PuGs will always exist so long that people want to socialize in GW.

The fact that their disappearing tells you something.....

Kern Wolf · Nov 26, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

PuGs will always exist so long that people want to socialize in GW.

The fact that their disappearing tells you something.....

I dont think PUGs are dead--IMO, PUGS are scarcely seen because the GW populace is pretty spread out between the three chapters. I know that in the main mission areas, I still see people looking for groups; they may be in the minority now that the experienced players have grasped hero/hench control, and dont feeel like waiting for groups to form.
I 'm about 1/2 through NF, and havent come up against a mission that I couldnt do with just Hero's/Henches, versus forming a group with human players. Would we call that experience, or (at this point in the game), really easy missions? I've read some of the posts that talked about the "really hard" missions near the end of the game; it could be that, towards the end, you might see more PUGs forming (any players who finished NF, please let us know if that's the case)...

Omega X · Nov 26, 2006, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by harshateja

I love when people bash PuGs as if they are a separate entity of inferior players, independent of the 1337 players. Here's a hint buddy, PuGs are made up of people like you and me. If 99% of this forum is bashing PuGs, you have to wonder - at least 50% of them are actually bashing themselves (like you).

I don't PuG and that argument makes no sense.

reetkever · Nov 26, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kern Wolf

I dont think PUGs are dead--IMO, PUGS are scarcely seen because the GW populace is pretty spread out between the three chapters. I know that in the main mission areas, I still see people looking for groups; they may be in the minority now that the experienced players have grasped hero/hench control, and dont feeel like waiting for groups to form.
I 'm about 1/2 through NF, and havent come up against a mission that I couldnt do with just Hero's/Henches, versus forming a group with human players. Would we call that experience, or (at this point in the game), really easy missions? I've read some of the posts that talked about the "really hard" missions near the end of the game; it could be that, towards the end, you might see more PUGs forming (any players who finished NF, please let us know if that's the case)...

Yep, that's kind of the case. In the second-last mission alot of people are lf a p... it's not that hard with heroes, though :P

But the Realm of Torment as a whole is rather difficult. Some quests are too hard to do with heroes as well (well, at least for me).

If the AI goes back to normal again, we might see more coöp as it becomes harder then. (enemies will actually ATTACK instead of just chasing around mindlessly :O)

ElinoraNeSangre · Nov 26, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

I did all of NF with hench/heroes except for the last two missions. PUGs make me nervous because I worry "what if people think I suck?" ect ect. I also have a pretty inconvienent sort of schedule and sometimes cram in 20 minutes here and there.

I got a random invite while sitting around in Gates of Madness tonight, and it was a heck of a great time. No one freaking out even though we horked the first time through, only 5 players but we used some heroes to fill it out, and it totally rocked.

Honestly, for how much I use heroes and hench, I've never had a hugely bad PUG experience, and it's always fun to chat with people. Knock off a few silly comments, ect.

I think the best part about Heroes/hench control is that you have options. And if you're short something you really need in a PUG, you've got something a little better to fill in. No more looking for a monk for a half hour then deciding "oh heck we'll just take hench healers".

(and I went on with the same PUG to beat Nightfall with my Mesmer, whoo!)

malevolence · Nov 26, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

OMG -A noob question- What PUGs means ? PM me with the answer please. Thanks.

VGJustice · Nov 26, 2006, 08:29 AM // 08:29

A good PuG is still a beautiful thing to behold. When, for some bizzare reason, your group of 2 Sins, a Monk, a fast casting Nuker, 3 Warriors, and my Sword Ranger manage to complete some really tough quests without a single death. Or, when a mish-mash group gets owned but pulls together and never gives up and succeeds anyway. Some of my fondest memories of this game involve PuGs.

Sure I've had some seriously bad players in various PuGs, and yeah I havn't actually PuGed at all since Nightfall, but I don't think that they'll die any time soon. If this game isn't about social interaction then what is it about?

[EDIT] malevolence: PuG means Pick Up Group. The random groups you find when you're in a town, basically.

hui33 · Nov 26, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

PuG fun to play with, but sometimes it gets into the unwant undesirable flaming war...

Depending on the mish, i complete 95% for all stuff with just heros/Henches...

But when i see ppl calling for groups i still join for chatting fun

garethporlest18 · Nov 26, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

They are pretty much dead in Nightfall with the Hero's. I see people asking for them in Prophecies though, and throughout NF I've seen people asking for them.

Overall if I need chatting..( I don't need PUGS), I go to Grotto, that's all the chatting I need and it keeps me going.

explodemyheart · Nov 26, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

I've noticed that the quality of pugs in NF is generally greater than those in, say, Prophecies. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because a lot of the veterans have moved on to NF, and more of the people new to Guild Wars in general are starting with Prophecies.

I've had very few horrific NF pug experiences, a few bad ones, several decent ones and a couple of really good ones. Yesterday I helped an alliance member with a mission in Factions and I wanted to stab someone. Today I helped the same person with a mission in Prophecies and I straight up wanted to jam my scissors through my eye socket (a monk should never use any skills other than scourge healing, apparently).

I still use heroes a lot when I'm on my own. When I'm with guild members it's just us and heroes always. We take heroes for ease of quick playing, really. It's nice to be able to finish a quest to pop into a mission town and maybe just change out one hero, whose build is already set up, and hop into the mission in a matter of a minute. When I'm alone and feeling patient, I pug. Patience just doesn't happen frequently.

It's just so bad that you can say heroes are better than a pug when 1) Tahlkora and Dunkoro blow all of their energy in a matter of seconds, Zhed cannot grasp the concept of glyphs or attunements at all (glyph of sacrifice + glowing gaze, anybody?), Koss won't lock on a target I set for him, and Norgu tries to power drain a non-spell. When your entire party is doing worse than that, can you really blame people?

As for those complaining that pugging is dead in NF... all I have to say is are you kidding me? Everywhere I see "GLF 1 more", etc. Everywhere. Most places, more than one group of people are looking for more. I don't know what to tell you. Either you can't read, or you need to make sure your local chat is on because I see no problem.

Orinn · Nov 26, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

PUG's aren't dead, not by a long shot. I personally usually prefer running with hero/hench or a good RL friend + our heros. However, once in a while I'll get a random invite and join up. Most of the time, the experience isn't bad. My warrior has completed all the storyline missions for all 3 campaigns, and generally, people listen and take advice. Once in a while, you get into a BAD group, but overall, PUG's are no worse than soloing/henching.

baz777 · Nov 26, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Completed Nightfall with Heroes/Henches only

Went to Tyria, completed all desert, Shiverpeak and Fire Islands with Heroes/Henches only

Went to Cantha, just started working my way through with Heroes/Henches

I miss aggro’ing 3 groups at a time
I miss aggro’ing the next group when I’m low on energy
I miss going to foreign districts and saying ‘KK’ to every question as I can’t understand a word, (seems to work every time in the German District)
I miss the moaning and accusations
I miss the complements, (had one once if I remember rightly)
I miss waiting 3 days for a monk to join our group
I miss ‘Mending’ on Warriors
I miss rage quitters
I miss people going afk for hours

But, in a strange perverted way, I do miss PUG’s!

Kotetsu Rain · Nov 26, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Hench/Hero Way has always been there and now that we have Hero's it's becoming more and more poupular. When I first started playing GW I figured that henchman were out of the question. Guild Wars is a CORPG and how can you be competive if you can't watch someone better than you? I mean heros and henches don't got anything on me when it comes to running, spiking, thinking up builds, giving advice, and just plain out having a good time.

PUG's are what make this game a Role Playing Game and not some game that has an internet connection. (I don't have anything against henches/heros and love side questing with them. PUG's will never die!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by malevolence

OMG -A noob question- What PUGs means ? PM me with the answer please. Thanks.

P ick
U p
G roup

Antheus · Nov 26, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

An advice for PUGs:

- Group "for this than that" LFM. Don't invite people yourself. If they are interested in joining, they will join themselves. If they don't know how to join themself, you don't want them in your group. Never ever invite players into your group by selecting non-grouped characters in the area. They don't care about joining a group and won't be interested (usually).

- Ask for their role (not build). A MM is a MM. Let them play their build, as long as it meets the purpose. A blood necro with level 5 minions however is not a MM. A confident player will show their build upon joining. That's a good sign. Inconfident player (but not necessarily a bad player) will be reluctant to show their build.

- Balanced groups. If you get invited into a group with 5 dervishes and 2 paragons, and leader asks to bring self-heals, it's time to leave. That very moment. Without a word.

- Try, at least try, to bring in some social atmosphere. Saying "Hi" upon joining and getting at least 1 reply is a good indication. Joining a group only to see the mission counter pop-up without a single word is a bad sign.

- Warrior with mending? So... what. It will get shattered. Doesn't matter. Warriors can't heal themself anyway, so they will always rely on monks for survival. Taking extra 70 damage isn't a disaster, they'll still soak up damage, and mending will remove one shatter that would go towards your casters.

- No "leet skill of your choice". So what. Name any build, and 5 people will line up and tell you how it sucks and what a moron you are for running it. Then 20 more will show up saying the original 5 are idiots for claiming that.

- "I can hench the entire game, all masters" crowd. Good for them. Since they are obviously too good to play with you, they won't join you anyway.

- You always fight alone. With heroes and henchies, nobody can hear you scream. With players, you see what others are doing. But you also have the oportunity to learn from them. Learn their mistakes, learn how to adapt to them, learn how to improve yourself, discuss or observe tactics. With henchies, you will never learn anything, only how to work around their bugs. And those are completely different from real challenges.

- Every so many times, you will wipe badly. You will get called names, you will have rage quitters, afkers, err7. Every so many times, you will get perfect group that will plow through everything. Humans tend to remember only bad experiences. Were all of your experiences really that bad? Or is it that every time you get a good group things go so smoothly, it's almost boring?

- Above all, do what you prefer. Don't feel forced into PUGs, don't feel forced into heroway. Don't cause frustration where you don't need it, but try to experience both.

- You equip your heroes so they fit the area. Select your group in the same way. Choose classes, roles, advise (not demand) on skill choices. It's the same thing, except that you don't have an UI for every group member. If someone actively argues your choices without providing a counter-point (very important), they are not a team player. If they suggest alternate build (Someone wants to run SS instead of MM), consider if that is really that bad. As long as there are corpses and many mobs, both builds will work. It's better to let them play the build they prefer. If there are no corpses, then there's no choice. SS/blood/not-MM or bust.

Xenrath · Nov 26, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Maybe it's a different story on US servers but in Euroland casual coop play has definately taken a hit. It's interesting to note this has occurred over the past 3 GW campaigns

1 - Prophecies, where people teamed up all the time in most areas.
2 - Factions, where people struggled to team up often hopping to German/French/English etc. districts just to get players for the party.
3 - Nightfall, where most seem to have Heroes permanently in their party and don't team up so much anymore.

Over the course of the three campaigns then, teamplay coop has been going downhill. It's not as simple as "you can if you want to" - you may want to but it's become harder and harder to find others who want to (as they probably already left with their AI team).